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Versión completa : ¿PARAQUÉ O CON QUE INTENCIÓN SE BAUTIZO JESUCRISTO?



Neftali Duarte
13-04-2010, 22:02
Pregunto ¿Era necesario que Jesucristo se bautizara si o no porque lo hizo?

MOISES1109
13-04-2010, 22:09
1.- SI

2.-Mat 3:15 Pero Jesús le respondió: Deja ahora, porque así conviene que cumplamos toda justicia. Entonces le dejó.

rer
13-04-2010, 22:24
no... El lo hizo para dar un ejemplo, al no tener pecado no tenia que bautisarse> Juan le dijo......que el no era digno de atarle las sandalia y Juan bautizo para arrepentimiento y Jesus no se tenia que arrepentirse de nada.

OSO
14-04-2010, 04:53
Pregunto ¿Era necesario que Jesucristo se bautizara si o no porque lo hizo?

Para cumplir con: toda justicia, con la las escirturas, ser semejante en todo a nosotros.

Bendiciones.

Dagoberto Juan
14-04-2010, 05:13
Para cumplir con: toda justicia, con la las escirturas, ser semejante en todo a nosotros.

Bendiciones.

Asi es...

"para cumplir toda justicia"

Si Jesús no se hubiese bautizado; hoy nadie lo haría, aduciendo, "Jesús no lo hizo"... por tanto, aunque Jesús en realidad no tenía necesidad de bautizarse, lo hizo "para cumplir toda justicia"

Bendiciones

Leal
15-04-2010, 05:02
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mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi; mso-ansi-language:ES-TRAD;} p.MsoNoSpacing, li.MsoNoSpacing, div.MsoNoSpacing {mso-style-priority:1; mso-style-unhide:no; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi; mso-ansi-language:ES-TRAD;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; mso-default-props:yes; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; 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mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif]--> Jesús no se bautizó para dar ejemplo a nadie, eso no es lo que dice la biblia, eso es pura figuración. El bautismo de Juan estaba enfocado a los judíos, y caducó (en el plan de Dios) al comenzar el bautismo del Espíritu Santo.
<o:p> </o:p>
Jesús de Nazaret fue bautizado por Juan, porque de esa manera se daría a conocer a Israel como lo que era en realidad: el Mesías, hasta ese momento ni aun Juan lo tenía claro, a pesar de conocerlo en la carne. Hasta ese momento era Jesusito el aldeano.
<o:p> </o:p>
Juan manifiesta el por qué o el para qué se bautizo Jesús:
<o:p> </o:p>


Juan 1: 29-34
<o:p> </o:p>
El siguiente día vio Juan a Jesús que venía a él, y dijo: He aquí el Cordero de Dios, que quita el pecado del mundo.<sup> </sup>Este es aquel de quien yo dije: Después de mí viene un varón, el cual es antes de mí; porque era primero que yo. Y yo no le conocía; mas para que fuese manifestado a Israel, por esto vine yo bautizando con agua. También dio Juan testimonio, diciendo: Vi al Espíritu que descendía del cielo como paloma, y permaneció sobre él. Y yo no le conocía; pero el que me envió a bautizar con agua, aquél me dijo: Sobre quien veas descender el Espíritu y que permanece sobre él, ése es el que bautiza con el Espíritu Santo. Y yo le vi, y he dado testimonio de que éste es el Hijo de Dios.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Así se cumplió lo que Dios había determinado. La frase para que se cumpla toda justica. La TEV y otras versiones, la traduce así: hagamos todo lo que Dios requiere. Lo que Dios requería en ese asunto era, como bien lo dice Juan, que Jesús de Nazaret fuera bautizado por Juan PARA en esa ocasión darlo a conocer a Israel. Para que se cumpla toda justicia, o para que se cumpla lo que Dios habia determinado.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Saludos.<o:p></o:p>

CLASICKO
15-04-2010, 05:57
Pregunto ¿Era necesario que Jesucristo se bautizara si o no porque lo hizo?

Definitivamente NO HAY RAZONES QUE JUSTIFIQUEN EL QUE JESUS REQUIRIERA BAURIZARCE EN EL JORDAN POR JUAN.

jESUS NACIÓ jUDIO Y COMO BUENOS JUDIOS CUMPLIDORES DE LA LEY SUS PADRES LO CIRCUNCIDARON A LOS 8 DIAS cumpliendo asi con el ritual de "bautizo" o iniciacion en la religión Judía. Motivo por el cual no tenia que ser REBAUTIZADO ya que el bautismo que realizaba Juan era para convertir al Judaismo! no para reconfirmar a alguno.

Y en los tiempos de Jesús no se conoce ni reconoce algo que se llame "bautismo PARA LA SALVACIÓN".
El único bautismo, es la inmersión en aguas puras, de acuerdo a las normas establecidas por las autoridades rabínicas, que se realizaba como método para simbolizar la disposición a acatar el cumplimiento de los mandamientos que Dios ordena poner por obra en Su perfecta e inmutable Torá.
El único efecto objetivo es que la persona sale mojada de las aguas puras.
Y el efecto subjetivo, es su deseo por hacer lo que Dios manda.
A que justicia estamos haciendo referencia????
Quizás a esta.
«El que no naciere del agua y del Espíritu no puede entrar en el Reino de Dios.» (Juan 3:5.)
Si Todos los creyentes creen saber que lo que significa «nacer de nuevo», pero ¿por qué dice Jesús «el que no naciere de agua»? Este punto crea la controversia porque se interpreta como el ritual del Bautismo.
Y Es necesario hacer notar aquí que la mayor parte de los manuscritos antiguos dicen «el que no naciere de arriba» pero se entiende que significa la conversión por el poder del Espíritu de Dios, que ciertamente es el nacimiento de arriba, así que esta versión es más exacta aunque la expresión «de nuevo» es más comprensible.
Jesús aplica un lenguaje figurado para expresar la nueva vida que el Espíritu de Dios producirá en aquellos que acepten su palabra como medio de salvación, y esta es una doctrina nueva en ese momento para los oyentes y para el pueblo Judío. Razón por la cual es necesario usar un lenguaje figurativo.
Para el mundo gentil no es nuevo ya que las religiones de los misterios están muy acostumbradas a esos términos y los dioses griegos cumplen con esas funciones de salvamento póstumo de los hombres
En este caso específicamente lo que resalta es la palabra AGUA que utiliza Jesús y esto tendría varias interpretaciones.
Una de ellas es la demasiada importancia que la Iglesia Católica de Roma ha dado al ritual de iniciación en la religión católica y por eso ha utilizado este versículo como una interpretación de la necesidad de bautizarse en agua o con agua, para cumplir con un requisito impuesto por el mismo Jesús, aunque esto estaría fuera de contexto.
El requisito imprescindible para el perdón de los pecados y la salvación ha sido cumplir con el ritual del bautismo. Y es por eso que la interpretación DEBE HACERCE literal y textualmente aunque el sentido en la que fue expresada fuera un sentido figurado.
Recordemos la costumbre judía de pasar por agua todo instrumento que cambiara de dueño para purificarlo y limpiarlo, así que esta interpretación es forzada por las creencias arraigadas en las mentes de la época.
Un saludo
Clasicko

rer
15-04-2010, 15:06
?cual es el proposito del Bautismo? demostrar que hay un cambio en la forma de vivir. .....?Jesus necesitaba cambiar su forma de vivir o sepurtar sus pecado?...No............ ?entoces para que bautizarse?......para modelo o ejemplo, ensenanza

CLASICKO
15-04-2010, 15:49
Asi es...

"para cumplir toda justicia"

Si Jesús no se hubiese bautizado; hoy nadie lo haría, aduciendo, "Jesús no lo hizo"... por tanto, aunque Jesús en realidad no tenía necesidad de bautizarse, lo hizo "para cumplir toda justicia"

Bendiciones

Dagoberto:

Y los argumentos?

Un saludo
CLASICKO

Leal
15-04-2010, 16:02
?cual es el proposito del Bautismo? demostrar que hay un cambio en la forma de vivir. .....?Jesus necesitaba cambiar su forma de vivir o sepurtar sus pecado?...No............ ?entoces para que bautizarse?......para modelo o ejemplo, ensenanza


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mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif]--> Juan 1:29-34 dice claramente para qué y por qué se bautizo Jesús de Nazaret. ¿No te basta con lo que está escrito, y prefieres conjeturar? Con conjeturas no se edifica; para lo único que sirven las conjeturas, es para apuntalar creencias que no tienen sólido fundamento bíblico.<o:p></o:p>
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Juan 1:29-34<o:p></o:p>
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mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi; mso-ansi-language:ES-TRAD;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; mso-default-props:yes; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} .MsoPapDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; margin-bottom:10.0pt; line-height:50%;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0in; mso-para-margin-right:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0in; line-height:50%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif]--> El siguiente día vio Juan a Jesús que venía a él, y dijo: He aquí el Cordero de Dios, que quita el pecado del mundo. Este es aquel de quien yo dije: Después de mí viene un varón, el cual es antes de mí; porque era primero que yo. Y yo no le conocía; mas para que fuese manifestado a Israel, por esto vine yo bautizando con agua. También dio Juan testimonio, diciendo: Vi al Espíritu que descendía del cielo como paloma, y permaneció sobre él.



Y yo no le conocía; pero el que me envió a bautizar con agua, aquél me dijo: Sobre quien veas descender el Espíritu y que permanece sobre él, ése es el que bautiza con el Espíritu Santo. Y yo le vi, y he dado testimonio de que éste es el Hijo de Dios.




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mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0in; mso-para-margin-right:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0in; line-height:50%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif]--> Ahí tienes el para qué y el por qué se bautizo Jesús de Nazaret en el bautismo de Juan. Más de esto es especular. <o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

rer
15-04-2010, 23:16
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mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif]--> Juan 1:29-34 dice claramente para qué y por qué se bautizo Jesús de Nazaret. ¿No te basta con lo que está escrito, y prefieres conjeturar? Con conjeturas no se edifica; para lo único que sirven las conjeturas, es para apuntalar creencias que no tienen sólido fundamento bíblico.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>


Juan 1:29-34<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
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mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi; mso-ansi-language:ES-TRAD;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; mso-default-props:yes; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} .MsoPapDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; margin-bottom:10.0pt; line-height:50%;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0in; mso-para-margin-right:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0in; line-height:50%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif]--> El siguiente día vio Juan a Jesús que venía a él, y dijo: He aquí el Cordero de Dios, que quita el pecado del mundo. Este es aquel de quien yo dije: Después de mí viene un varón, el cual es antes de mí; porque era primero que yo. Y yo no le conocía; mas para que fuese manifestado a Israel, por esto vine yo bautizando con agua. También dio Juan testimonio, diciendo: Vi al Espíritu que descendía del cielo como paloma, y permaneció sobre él.



Y yo no le conocía; pero el que me envió a bautizar con agua, aquél me dijo: Sobre quien veas descender el Espíritu y que permanece sobre él, ése es el que bautiza con el Espíritu Santo. Y yo le vi, y he dado testimonio de que éste es el Hijo de Dios.




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mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0in; mso-para-margin-right:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0in; line-height:50%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif]--> Ahí tienes el para qué y el por qué se bautizo Jesús de Nazaret en el bautismo de Juan. Más de esto es especular. <o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

mas para que fuese manifestado a Israel. ...Entonces que es manifiesto...que lo suoieran la gente...pero , pero no tenia que bautisarse al no tener pecado......lo hizo como un ejemplo, un modelo...

Leal
16-04-2010, 03:35
mas para que fuese manifestado a Israel. ...Entonces que es manifiesto...que lo suoieran la gente...pero , pero no tenia que bautisarse al no tener pecado......lo hizo como un ejemplo, un modelo...


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mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif]--> ¿Modelo y ejemplo? Pero si el bautismo de Juan no era para la iglesia. En el plan de Dios el bautismo de Juan estaba enfocado a los israelitas; Juan vino delante del Señor a preparar los corazones de un pueblo que hacía siglos no es cuchaba de Dios. Después de Juan el bautista, nadie estaba supuesto a seguir con ese bautismo.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Ese bautismo fue la ceremonia de iniciación como Mesías de Jesús de Nazaret. Dios lo dio a conocer en ese momento; antes nadie lo conocía. El verbo manifestar significa dar a conocer algo que no se conocía, manifestarlo públicamente. 28.36 φανερόω<sup>b</sup>; ἐμφανίζω<sup>b</sup>; φαίνομαι<sup>b</sup>; φωτίζω<sup>b</sup>; φανέρωσις, εως [I]f; φωτισμός<sup>b</sup>, οῦ m: to cause something to be fully known by revealing clearly and in some detail—‘to make known, to make plain, to reveal, to bring to the light, to disclose, revelation<sup><!----><sup>[1]</sup><!--[endif]--></sup> (http://forocristiano.iglesia.net/#_ftn1) <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
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Jesús no se bautizo para confesar pecados, se bautizo para cumplir con la voluntad de Dios, con el plan de Dios. Estaba dispuesto por Dios darlo a conocer de esa manera ¿No lees que el mismo Juan lo está diciendo?<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Nosotros debemos imitar a Jesús de Nazaret en su obediencia e integridad, en nada más, Jesús de Nazaret era judío nacido bajo la ley, la cual tenia que cumplir al pie de la letra. Tú no eres ni judío ni estas bajo la ley.<o:p></o:p>
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<o:p> </o:p>
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<hr align="left" width="33%" size="1"> <!--[endif]--> <sup><!--[if !supportFootnotes]--><sup>[1]</sup><!--[endif]--></sup> (http://forocristiano.iglesia.net/#_ftnref1)Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. 1996, c1989. [I]Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament : Based on semantic domains (electronic ed. of the 2nd edition.) (1:337-338). United Bible societies: New York